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Steve Ballmer never used to be someone who let facts speak for themselves. In the 1990s, he was the hyper-energetic Microsoft exec yelling “Developers! Developers! Developers!” at an all-hands meeting in Safeco field. And in the aughts, after he inherited Bill Gates’ CEO role, he was the fellow who looked at you in the eye and dared you to say that Microsoft wasn’t relevant. After retirement, the world came to know him as the guy bellowing on the sidelines to cheer on the team he bought for $2 billion—the LA Clippers.
But this spring we learned that Ballmer, 61, had built something that spoke without straining vocal chords: a comprehensive trove of government statistics, expertly curated to identify how the US spends money and generates revenue—and who in the population benefits. Called USA Facts, the organization was funded by Ballmer after his wife, Connie Snyder Ballmer, suggested that he alter his philanthropic trajectory, and it presents its extensive findings in the form of a lengthy 10-K report, the kind that a corporation must submit to the SEC. (It also slices and dices the data into neater, web-friendly bites.)
Though Ballmer has given money to social causes he cares about, USA Facts is something different. Built on his fondness for numbers and a belief that data can be a basis for change, the project uses public statistics to unearth what government really does and does not do — and who the measurable winners are. What people do with that information, he says, is up to them.
Talking about it has helped Ballmer fill the time not spent rooting for the Clippers after his team’s first-round loss in the NBA playoffs. He sat down with Backchannel to discuss why he founded USA Facts, the difference between running a sports and technology business, and why he invested hundreds of millions of dollars in Twitter.
Steven Levy: Why did you start USA Facts?
Steve Ballmer: Connie’s been focused on the issues of disadvantaged kids for around 10 years. When I retired, she said, “Now, you can help me. Let’s go.” I was a little tired, and I said, “Ultimately, that’s something government has to take care of. No amount of private money is ever going to solve anything — we pay our taxes and the government will do its deal.” She said, “Sorry, bucko. That’s not quite good enough.”
It got me interested in saying, “Okay, what really happens to our taxes? How much is really going into disadvantaged kids? How much is helping the poor in various ways?” Partly, it was like, “Okay, I’m gonna show her I was kinda right.” I wound up proving I was kinda right and a lot wrong.
I assume you’re referring to how vividly your numbers show that government is doing very little to address income inequality. You’re a billionaire — has seeing this had an effect on you?
I have obviously been blessed, and have more than I’ll ever need. So, in a way, I can take a different perspective than a lot of people. What it says to me is [the] number one most important thing is: Getting government right is super important. If you have any view of important things, as my wife and I do about giving every kid a shot at the American dream, government’s got to be right on the issues.
Number two: How a democracy wants to balance between rich people [and] poor people is determined by its representative government. I’m willing to go with it, whatever the decisions are. People want to cut expenses, I guess that’s what the will of the people is. People want to raise taxes, that’s the will of the people.
I don’t think we should run deficits — this is the businessman in me — and I’m hardcore in that I really think every kid deserves a shot at the American dream.
What do you mean by the “American Dream,” a term that appears prominently in USA Facts?
It means every child in this country should have a chance. They’re not going to all be equal, but there shouldn’t be kids who are basically done with their opportunity for economic advancement the day they’re born. That’s part of the American dream: opportunity.
In the age of post-facts, you created a facts-based site. What’s been the response?
I’ve been overwhelmed by the level of interest in the facts. We had a real surge of usage on the site when we first came out — 600,000 visitors — though it certainly has damped off. But I was shocked. I didn’t know whether we’d have any interest at all. We only have two full-time people on this site. We use a lot of contractors and all of a sudden, the interest people have in knowing more, doing more curriculum for kids, high school kids, and college kids—it says to me that people are interested in the facts, and yet we’ve got to make sure that we’re keeping them timely, and relevant, and topical.
People worry now whether facts can solve an argument.
Facts always solve the political argument. Always. One hundred percent. Now, you may disagree with them, but when the rubber meets the road, it’s about numbers.
But some people now refuse to accept actual numbers.
If people say, “My political beliefs are not determined by ‘these numbers and the facts,’” I believe that. But this is not a D or an R issue. It’s not about the rhetoric. It’s about specific legislation and specific budget numbers. It is about specifics. Decisions like, “Are we gonna spend 30 billion on SNAP [food stamps]? Are we gonna spend 10 billion on SNAP? Are we gonna spend 50 billion on SNAP?” That’s real. Real decisions that somebody will make and that will get ratified by our legislature.
Do you think that presenting the numbers will actually change things?
Before my post-retirement phase, I used to think: problem, solution, answer. Now, it’s about being part of advancing the dialogue, advancing the discussion, helping us get better. As opposed to, “Solve it.” You can say, “Okay. We think this equality of opportunity thing is important for everybody.” Guess what? It’s not going to get solved by us and it’s not going to get solved in our lifetime. But do I think we have played and continue to play a role in helping people see that there’s a middle ground, because numbers make it easier to see? I hope so.
You own a sports team. What can a major sports league like the NBA learn from the tech world?
I think there’s good opportunities for technology to play a role in transforming fan experience. I think fan experience can be better. Not only in the arena, but at home. I’m particularly interested in virtual reality.
What can tech learn from sports?
In the tech world, people think we are high accountability; we deal with our talent well; we believe in teamwork. In business, you can say, “Well, I didn’t get it right, but we’re gonna keep working. Okay, we’ll improve that.” In tech, employees like to yak: “My review score—what is it? How much is this? How much is that? Did I do a good job? Let me talk to you.”
But there’s no hiding in sports. How well you’re doing is all entirely transparent, and there’s no way to talk yourself out of a jam, or confuse yourself. It’s hardcore — you either win or you lose. Your season’s over, or it’s not over. It’s just binary. It’s the highest accountability thing in the world. In basketball, every human on the planet can evaluate your performance. All the analytics are available. Everybody can watch all your games or write about it — the columnist knows absolutely everything that the general manager knows. Everything. Your individual human performance can get reviewed in a way that never happens in business. And every 24 seconds, I can tell you how good our teamwork is. That’s high accountability.
Most businesses say, “Oh, we’ll keep compensation quiet.” Not our business. Everybody knows precisely what you make, where you are ranked, and why you are ranked there. I can’t tell you what players are going to be on our team next year. But I can tell you the accountability’s there and I can tell you we will be measured over the next few years by whether we’re in contention to win an NBA championship.
So if I were starting a tech company from scratch, I should publish everyone’s salary and be transparent to the press?
I only worked at one tech company, but I would say, the opportunity to improve accountability in the tech industry is not insubstantial. It’s different than Procter & Gamble, which got to show good soap sales every quarter. Some companies making money right now say they’re investing for the future. Where’s the accountability? You can say, “Well, the ultimate accountability’s the stock price.” It sort of is, but it sort of isn’t. You can talk your stock price up. But you can’t talk up wins and losses.
You have made a big investment in Twitter, buying four percent. How are you feeling about that?
From a stock price perspective, things haven’t gone the way I might have thought. I think Twitter should outperform the market. It’s still a company that has opportunity in front of it — there’s an asset there that I think can be made into something. But it’s going to have to really work to realize the opportunity. I did later decide that I’m not really interested in being an investor as my primary activity. I decided, I’m interested in the USA Facts stuff, I’m interested in our philanthropic stuff, I’m interested in basketball. I don’t need to try to be a tech investor. So, do I hold my Twitter stock? We’ll see where Twitter winds up going. At some point either they’ll get it turned around or there’ll be a buyout offer that they take.
One Microsoft question. When the company was hauled into court to defend itself against monopolistic practices, you folks said that tech is so dynamic that you can’t have a monopoly. Indeed, Microsoft lost much of its dominance. Do you ever want to say, “I told you so?”
No. There will always a few big guys, a bunch of mid-level guys, and there are tons of little guys. You don’t get to stay at a level — you can drop down and you can drop off. No matter who looks like they’re un-attackable, there’s always going to be some new guy. So will the top five be the top five? The only one I care about, actually, is Microsoft. I own a lot of Microsoft shares. Maybe we’ll find out 20 years from now, when we’re sitting here having this conversation…and the Clippers have our fifth NBA championship. . .
Maybe our tenth NBA championship. I don’t want to be lacking ambition.
